V41 as a device

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V41 as a device

Postby Duncan » Tue May 19, 2020 5:38 pm

Hi all
Does anyone know if the V41 can be configured as a device? I'm thinking if so it maybe something to do with the SC (System Controller) & CA (Controller Available) bits in register 0 of the HP-IL integrated circuit and how to do it? I know that SC is tied high in the real HP-41 and it seems I can get close to a device but not to actually work. It would be great if V41 could be configured as a device like the 71 so multiple instances could exist in the same HP-IL loop then data & programs could possibly be passed directly between them. If not it would be great if the V41 could be modified to provide this capability?
Duncan
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Re: V41 as a device

Postby rprosperi » Wed May 20, 2020 12:50 am

The HP-41 could only act as a controller on HP-IL. I've no idea if it's even feasible for V41, but it seems it would take a LOT of work; again, I really don't know.

I believe the one exception to that general statement is a 41 with the HP-IL Development Module running the HP-IL Analyzer/Scope program could act like it is invisible on the loop, showing you all the frames being sent around, but IIRC it was not seen as a loop device (with an address, addressed as Talker or Listener, etc.). It may be possible to see what the Scope program is doing to accomplish that in the V41 debugger ? Just an idea.
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Re: V41 as a device

Postby mike-stgt » Wed May 20, 2020 2:06 am

Duncan wrote:Does anyone know ...

Short answer: yes, there are several who do know :mrgreen:
Long answer: take a look at the screen shot, the HP41 under V41 to the right acts as controler, the other one runs SCOPE of the HPIL-Developement module (aka "DevIL"). It is not seen as a device in the loop, LCAT detects the printer only. If you like to play with a programmalbe device run an HP-71B under Win71 (or under Emu71 under DOSBox), the HP-71 is more complete regarding HP-IL.
Note: to run more than one V41 instance in parallel first uncheck 'Single Instance' in the File/Options/More Settings... -dialog. Then you have to find a way to start a second instance of V41, no menu item of the V41 will do.
BTW, in the VilMA window (Virtual-IL MAnager) you see several other scope instances, I use them to "bracket" devices where I can not (or will not) change the port number automatically.

M.
Attachments
V41 with DevIL.png
Screen shot of two V41 instances connected
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Re: V41 as a device

Postby Duncan » Wed May 20, 2020 2:04 pm

Hi all
Thanks for the info more stuff to check out! My interest was piqued by the HP-IL Development module manual that seems to indicate that the 41 can be a device and controller using the 2 programs 'Device' and 'Read as listed in the manual (plus INTR etc.). I tried these programs out using 2 instances of V41 (as I only had 1 real one) and indeed it does seem to work but unfortunately it always times out (as it hints at in the manual) even if I have the V41's running at all different speeds to try to cater for 'timing out' or am I not understanding something? It just seems to be so near yet so far!
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Re: V41 as a device

Postby mike-stgt » Wed May 20, 2020 3:52 pm

Duncan wrote:It just seems to be so near yet so far!


Beforehand - V41 is open source, so everybody is invited to improve V41. (I made a version for me that shows in trace log all the labels I like to see there.)

Then, have a look to the Windows Task-Manager when V41 with DevIL is running SCOPE -- it engages one kernel of the host. The only help I currently know for this situation, set the speed of the controller to "normal" (slider to the middle of the scale or below) and the device instance to the max (or close to it, something above the controller). If you quit and re-start V41 you have to set speed again, as there is only one setting saved, this is not an item in the state file.

I did not test the programs you mention, only SCOPE. 0 and 0.5 second delay work best, 1 second works also but tends to trouble, with 1.5 second delay TRANSMIT ERR is highly likely. If you have some spare time please fix it :)

M.
Last edited by mike-stgt on Thu May 21, 2020 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V41 as a device

Postby Duncan » Wed May 20, 2020 7:59 pm

Hi Mike
Ok again thanks for the info. I'm not a C++ programmer although I'm currently learning it I currently program in something called Script from Asymetrix so may take me a while to look at V41 source code!! But I think I will get there eventually! Thanks for your help it kinda confirms that this is possible so more of a long term project, should keep me busy till at least year 3065!!!!! (will let you know).
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Re: V41 as a device

Postby mike-stgt » Thu May 21, 2020 4:31 pm

Duncan wrote:... confirms that this is possible so more of a long term project...

Long term project? -- a "slow worm" project, as it allows only low pace traffic. You probably saw the warning on p. 16 of the DevIL manual. Could be worth to give Emu71 a try. Don't get me wrong, I am a big HP41 devotee and do not like the HP71B, but for tricky HPIL tasks it is the better choice.

/M.
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