Your HP41CV and CX configuration anno 2021?

[floppy_stuttgart]

Hello,
could you please disclose and explain your HP41CV and CX configuration today? It will help me to understand the use case and possible setup.

my HP41 CV configuration and use anno 1984 was:
- Time module
Advantage: made me awake the morning to go to the university
- Card reader
Advantage: storing my program files
Disadvantage: it made me depressed because loading files was too long, too often (not enough memory to store all programs together), too energy consuming and was one of the reason I putted the HP41 by side for several years
- X-Functions
Advantage: could help me in matrix solving program (swap of register)
- MATH module
Advantage: neutral: at the end I had not much time to have a deep look since in the university we moved quickly into SUN computer center
- NO Printer (not enough money): during club events, some nice people were letting me printing for free my programs on their printer
- NO Cassette reader (not enough money): I was using the card reader instead
- NO HP-IL
General:
- playing around understanding synthetic programming and bits and bytes
- making small programs running faster in the special memory area
- writing own math and structural concrete analysis programs for my early studies (2 years long)
- ... long time HP41CV use on hold (move to computers, linux, raspberry PI etc.)
- ... HP41CV was as calculation machine on the table as long the batteries did not explode (I know, a pity)

NOW, anno 2021, the HP41 CV is back to life (since I could find a repair shop and still see a lot of girls and boys in the internet who have removed my original doubts). The configuration I am starting to put in place is:
- same HP41CV base anno 1984
- HP-IL
- PIL-Box
- Computer Linux + Pylper
- Nov64
- Projects: educational use for others, diving, tide calculation, prime studies etc.
(NO printer planned: I will print programs from the Linux Computer)
(NO special storage planned so far; perhaps a second Nov64 will be necessary for storing data.. will see)

Your configuration disclosure is welcome here:
- program writing, visualizing and debugging: EMU41 or other?
- file storage (outside HP41): PC HDD? Raspberry PI USB? (probably not card reader
- file/ROM storage in HP41: Nov64 or other?
- file printing: HP printer or in PC(what application?)?
- file exchange communication: HP-IL +PilBox or RS232 HP device with PC?

I will read carefully and learn from you (like anno 1984..).

[Garth]

For the calculator itself, I have:

• 41cx Halfnut, which is like a cv plus time module and extended functions / extended memory built in, plus some things you cannot get in a cv, like the text editor
• double extended-memory module, so the two extra extended-memory modules take only one port. My RAM space is totally full.
• HP-IL and Extended I/O modules combined into one, so together they only take one port
• Diego's ClonixD hardware module into which I have, in its flash:
  • Advantage module (The 41z module below is far better for complex numbers, but I still use the Advantage's number-base conversions and Boolean logic functions. The Advantage also has matrix operations and a lot of other good stuff.)
  • ZENROM, for synthetic programming. It makes all synthetics like they were not synthetic; so you can for example enter TONE 87, or STO M, or put any characters you want directly into a text string even though they're not on the keyboard.
  • Angel's 41z module which gives the 41 a true 4-level complex-number stack and over 100 complex-number functions, all written in MCode for maximum performance, and it's approximately ten times as fast as the few complex-number functions in the Advantage module
  • Angel's WarpCore module which gives tons of added functions which improve the speed and compactness of programs in any discipline
  • Library 4 which is used by 41z, WarpCore, and others
  This leaves me with one port still available, two if the HP-IL/XIO combined module is not plugged in.

The double extended-memory module has enough memory that I very, very seldom need to use my 82161A HP-IL microcassette drives (of which I have two). If I have not used a program in a long time but there's a slight possibility I'll want it again, I'll move it to extended memory. After it has sat there for years without use, I'll delete it. If it's not backed up, I could re-enter it, which wouldn't take that long since it's very seldom that my programs exceed approximately 250 bytes. I don't think I've ever needed to though. I also have a working card reader I got on eBay with the intention of building something else into the shell, but I've never used it, and never got around to building anything into it so far. I also have a book of magnetic cards someone gave me.

Someone gave me a wand also, but I have not used it.

For printing, I initially got the Thinkjet printer; but it quit working years ago. It goes through the motions, but no ink goes on the paper, with any ink cartridge. The contacts to the cartridge are totally clean, with no ink or corrosion on them. It all quit at once, IOW, it wasn't that one dot row quit, and then another, etc.. I got an HP-IL mini printer, but have hardly used it. What I normally do is go through the HP82165A HPIL-to-parallel converter and print on my Epson dot-matrix impact printer.

When writing all but the shortest programs, I do it in a text editor on the PC so I can more easily edit, see what I'm doing, add comments, group related instructions together on one line, etc., then enter the program into the 41; then there's very little debugging to do, as it's more likely to work correctly the first time. The text files are on the PC, with backups. I never actually connect the 41 to the PC though. I have connected my 71 to the PC, through the FSI164A HPIL-to-RS232 converter, to use the PC's large keyboard and display as if they were extensions of the 71, and to transfer Intel Hex files with size up to 730KB, transferred a line at a time while calculating them, since I only have 176KB of RAM in my 71. I have wanted my HPs to be separate from the PC because PCs have been so unstable until the last ten years or so. My 41 from 1986 is a model of stability. I have had some of the program I use most in its RAM for 25+ years, without ever reloading; no crashing, no need to update the OS, no viruses, etc..

I have a more complete description at http://wilsonminesco.com/HP41intro.html, although I see now I should update the page.

[floppy_stuttgart]

Thanks. Interesting user case.
Questions:
a) "double extended-memory module": who in EU is a specialist in soldering and could merge 2x X-Memory in one? So far I understood, it would work on both CV and CX; correct?
b) "HP-IL and Extended I/O modules combined into one": is it the same like (a) and a soldering task or there is another possibility to make this? (reducing busy ports is important)
c) what are trhe differences between "HP 82164A HP-IL / RS-232C Interface for HP 41C/CV/CX 71B Calculators" and "HP82165A HPIL-to-parallel converter". I dont have any of them.

[Garth]

Thanks. Interesting user case.
Questions:
a) "double extended-memory module": who in EU is a specialist in soldering and could merge 2x X-Memory in one? So far I understood, it would work on both CV and CX; correct?

I don't know who does it today. I sent Diego (who makes the Clonix modules) an email asking if he knows anyone who does it. Perhaps he himself would do it in order to make more shells available to put his modules in. We'll see how he responds. [Edit: He responded in a post further down.]

And yes, you could use the double extended-memory module in any 41cx, or in any 41c or cv with an extended-functions/extended-memory module. Actually, for the c and cv, you could combine the three modules into one shell. The cx already has the extended-functions/extended-memory module built in though, plus some things you cannot get in a c or cv; so the cx only needs the memory added, not the functions.

b) "HP-IL and Extended I/O modules combined into one": is it the same like (a) and a soldering task or there is another possibility to make this? (reducing busy ports is important)

Perhaps Diego will tell us who can do it.

c) what are the differences between "HP 82164A HP-IL / RS-232C Interface for HP 41C/CV/CX 71B Calculators" and "HP82165A HPIL-to-parallel converter". I dont have any of them.

RS-232 is asynchronous serial with much higher signal voltages than normal. ±12 is pretty standard, but the exact voltage is not critical at all. I have a 6502-oriented RS-232 primer on my site at http://wilsonminesco.com/RS-232/RS-232primer.html. (My apologies— this article doesn't have very many pictures. It's mostly text describing RS-232.) The '164 is for RS-232. The 165 OTOH is for parallel, where typically 8 bits go out on 8 wires and then separate handshaking lines tell the receiver when the data are available, and tell the transmitter when the receiver has taken the data and is ready for more. Before USB, Centronics parallel was the most common type of printer interface. There were RS-232 serial printers, but I think they were less common. Both are much, much simpler than USB though. USB is not hobbyist-friendly at all. The USB 2.0 specification is over 650 pages long; you cannot make up your own USB cables on the workbench; you cannot go more than 5 meters with USB; there are at least nine kinds of USB connectors, so how can they call it "universal" serial bus?; and normally one port can only go to one device, so how can they call it a bus?; and the USB spec does not allow a hand-held unit to be a controller. Can you tell I don't like USB?!

[pcscote]

Hello,

In the 1980s I had several HP-41's, lots of modules, all the standard and HP-IL peripherals.
I was a PPC, CHUU, PPC-Toulouse member and started my own local HP calculator club.
I went full blast first on synthetic programming and then on mcode programming.
I had lots of advanced modules: PPC-ROM, HP-IL, Time, X-F/M, X-MEMs, Ext-I/O, Plotter, ZenROM, CCD, Paname, HePaX, etc.
I had all the 8216X HP-IL peripherals, lots of HP-IB electronic equipments, I bought several HP-IL dev kits and created my own custom HP-IL peripherals.
I also bought: MLDL boxes, EPROM boxes, EPROM burner, ZEPROMs & ZVCs.
I used the HP-41 as my personal computer to solve math, stat, physic & electronic problems, to play games, etc.
I used it to create professional programs: in surveying, to communicate with remote equipment with RS-232, to control relays with GP-IO interfaces and to control HP-IL/HP-IB electronic equipment.
Something happened at the end of 1989 and I lost everything, including all my HP stuff.

Between 1989 and 2011, I had a 16C that I used daily and a 48SX that I used sometimes.

Then in 2011, without planning it, I stumbled on HP-41 stuff on eBay, bought a couple of things.
After playing with it for a while, nostalgia took over me, I went full blast to rebuild my lost collection and then some.
Today I have several 41C, 41CV, 41CX in fullnut, halfnut & blanknut variants, several 41CL (v2 to v5), lots the modules, std and HP-IL peripherals, etc.
Today my main use it to control physical/virtual HP-IL/HP-IB equipment.
I had planned to go back into mcode programming, but it had to be postponed for later, due to the lack of free time to relearn all the OS entry points & registers usage.

Sylvain

[Garth]

Wow, Sylvain, you went more wild than I!

I had planned to go back into MCode programming, but it had to be postponed for later, due to the lack of free time to relearn all the OS entry points & registers usage.

Angel said he had done in MCode just about all that could be done; but I contend that the 41cx's text editor could be vastly improved (and writing it for a module would make it available to the c and cv as well), and the string operations could be improved beyond what's in the eXtended I/O module for example.

[pcscote]

Hello Garth,

Wow, Sylvain, you went more wild than I!

Based on your past comments and from your web site content, I am not so sure but yes I can be extreme sometimes

I had planned to go back into MCode programming, but it had to be postponed for later, due to the lack of free time to relearn all the OS entry points & registers usage.

Angel said he had done in MCode just about all that could be done; but I contend that the 41cx's text editor could be vastly improved (and writing it for a module would make it available to the c and cv as well), and the string operations could be improved beyond what's in the eXtended I/O module for example.

I agree, also missing: form based data entry/display [ex.: T: (___) ___-____ ] , data indexing, better HW & SW implementation of the HP-IL interface, etc.

Sylvain

Edit: some of my HP-41 related stuff ... #1 / #2 / #3 / #4 / #5 / #6 / #7 / #8

[Replycant]

Hi all,

In reply to Garth's email, I've done such "module doubling surgery" a number of times.

Not a big deal in fact and any hobbyist with good soldering skills can cope with it.

The interconnection details are available in several well known places.

I'm not in the EU at the moment, so it will be complicated to attend this job myself.

Anyhow, if you don't find someone else for the task and are not in a hurry, we can
get back to this by end Sept.

Best wishes and keep safe.

Diego.