Users' Program Library Europe

Programs for HP-41

Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:59 pm

Hello,
Is it still possible to obtain (purchase, beg, borrow, whatever) programs from the old Users' Program Library Europe that used to be so active??
There are several programs in their old catalogue that I would like to try.
Thanks.
... Martin Potter
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:49 am

ve3oat wrote:There are several programs in their old catalogue that I would like to try.

    i) where did you find that catalogue?
    ii) the installation of V41 comes with plenty of programs, see Index.txt in its installation folder.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:40 pm

Hi, mike-sgtg,

Thanks for replying.

i) the catalogue is called "HP Users' Program Library Europe Catalogue" and it is on the massive listing (thumb drive) from the HP Museum. The programs are :
60564D calculating Great Circle paths and bearings
60014D coaxial cable impedances
60170D better curve fitting

ii) thanks for that lead. I will explore the listing there, although what I am looking for is pretty specialized and I don't expect to find them there. But will look anyway because ... well, you just never know what might be found! ;)

Thanks again.
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:56 pm

OK, now I see! Forgive me, please, I am just a newbie here.

I see that V41 is an *emulator* and the files for running it are coded somehow for the emulator.

Actually, I am running a dyed in the wool HP-41CV hardware calculator. I think what I need now is some way to translate the V41 .raw files into readable ASCII that I can enter into my HP41. Am I on the right track so far, or is it more complicated than that?

Thanks for any help.
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:25 pm

Hello Martin!
ve3oat wrote:I see that V41 is an *emulator* and the files for running it are coded somehow for the emulator.

The format is simple the binary representation of the program in storage of an HP41. Alas no checksum, no meta-data, not a least hint that it's for V41. You could use those RAW files also in Emu42 when simulating an HP-42S. It works if you are lucky, no: mostly.
Actually, I am running a dyed in the wool HP-41CV hardware calculator. I think what I need now is some way to translate the V41 .raw files into readable ASCII that I can enter into my HP41. Am I on the right track so far, or is it more complicated than that?

It depends. If your goall is nothing but transfer 2..3 routines just manually my advice is to load in V41 the HP-IL module (Menu/File/Edit..., hit Add and pick the file hpil.mod), download and install ILPer, that is a program that simulates a bundle of virtual IL devices, one of them acts like a printer, run in same time with V41 and typically it should link right away, else read the description how to align port numbers, and you may print programs as human readable listing. Now take your "wool-inked" CV and do the "opto-mechanical copying by livelily interface".

If this is not a single shot only, there exists equipment to link your HP41CV with a PC.

Another option could be, loading the RAW files into a. m. Emu42, printing is somewhat simpler with it. But, you do need a ROM copy of HP42S :mrgreen:

BTW, if you find 60564D calculating Great Circle paths and bearings please let me know, I'd like to see how it's done. Ah.. V41 includes Navigation Module (but not the Schenk Yacht module it seems).
And in case the 'curves' in 60170D better curve fitting are nothing but straight lines, then you find my solution in here.

Best,
M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:43 am

Hi, mike-stgt,

(Sorry about getting your name wrong.) Thanks very much for all of that. A lot to digest there! I can see that I will be busy for a while, solving this "little" problem. Yes, finding those programs that I wanted is a sort of "one off" thing, but I can see that there is a lot of interesting stuff in the V41 emulator that you pointed me to. More incentive to proceed further!

I had not intended to get into emulation but there is obviously useful stuff there and it might (probably?) lead to what I had wanted originally, just by a different route than I had imagined.

You mentioned the programs from the NAV module. The "GC" program in it does almost what I want, but gives a bearing only for the one end. Not so good for radio communication applications, where it is nice (often required) to have the azimuth at both ends of the radio path. I ignored that and wrote a little bit of HP41 code around the GC program so I could use it, and give me the distance in km instead of GC's nautical miles. But it is kludgey and I am still looking for a program that quickly and easily gives distances in km and bearings or azimuths at both ends.

Thanks, too, for the link to your curve fitting program. And all the other stuff on that page!! Wow. Some very interesting things there.

Thanks very much for your help with this. More things to think about! Never stop learning, they say.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:36 am

Hello Martin,

ve3oat wrote:Is it still possible to obtain (purchase, beg, borrow, whatever) programs from the old Users' Program Library Europe that used to be so active??

The USA version of the Users' Program Library has been lost but the most of the European version is kept in the attic of one of the HPCC member.

ve3oat wrote:it is on the massive listing (thumb drive) from the HP Museum.

You may also consider buying the latest HHC 2021 USB Drive from Eric Rechlin.

ve3oat wrote:Actually, I am running a dyed in the wool HP-41CV hardware calculator

Mike suggestion to buy the PIL-Box is a great one.
You will need:
HP-IL side: HP-41CV+HP-IL Module ↔ HP-IL cables ↔ PIL-Box
USB side: PIL-Box ↔ USB cable ↔ computer ↔ virtual HP-IL peripherals software ↔ virtual tape/floppy (aka LIF volume)

Some pointers ..
  • PIL-Box : HP-IL to USB interface from Jean-François Garnier
  • Virtual HP-IL : virtual HP-IL peripherals from Christoph Gießelink (Windows)
  • pyILPer : virtual HP-IL peripherals from Joachim Siebold (Windows/macOS/Linux)
  • LIF Utils : LIF file manipulation utilities from Joachim Siebold (Windows/macOS/Linux)
  • Clonix-D & NoV-64d : Flash & FRAM HP-41 modules from Diego Díaz (Configuration software running on Windows)
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:38 pm

ve3oat wrote:[...] I ignored that and wrote a little bit of HP41 code around the GC program so I could use it, and give me the distance in km instead of GC's nautical miles. But it is kludgey and I am still looking for a program that quickly and easily gives distances in km and bearings or azimuths at both ends.

In the hope my suggestion may be less "kludgey" --
BidirGC.gif
GC one-way and back again
BidirGC.gif (4.14 KiB) Viewed 592 times

but I left out the nmi -> km conversion. "IH" is the reverse "HI" (initial heading) at the oposite end. Using the figures from the manual it shows i) the initial GC heading at start and end differs by ~20°, and ii) the two locations are left swapped in storage. If that is a problem you may add few lines to swing them back.

/M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:00 am

Dear Mike and Sylvain,

Wow! So many suggestions and so much information and things to try! I am almost overwhelmed by your help.

Sylvain -- Thanks for mentioning the HPCC. In fact, I joined the organization just a few weeks ago and am looking forward to receiving the next copy of their DataFile publication. Following your suggestion, I will certainly explore their holdings in depth, and maybe contacting that member with the attic. Also, thanks for mentioning the HHC USB drive, of which I was not aware. If it is anything like the Museum of HP Computers thumb drive, it will be worth having too.

Mike -- Thank you very much for the BIDIRGC code. It certainly looks less kludgey than what I was working with. I was hoping to be able to tell you how well your code works, but I got hung up on ... (don't laugh now) ... how to enter certain expressions. Must get out my manual and figure this out! I seem to have forgotten an awful lot since the days in the 1980s and early 1990s when I programmed and used my HP41 almost every day. Until recently, my calculator was unused. (Being 80 years old now, forgetfulness seems to be a way of life. I can not recommend it.)

So, the onus is on me to study more, relearn more, and keep exploring. And I thought the question that I posted here was a simple one. (I can hear you both chuckling to yourselves.) Thank you again, both of you, for all of your help and encouragement.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:12 pm

ve3oat wrote:don't laugh now
Why not? When if not now? And, pardon me, about what? :mrgreen:
And I thought the question that I posted here was a simple one
It is, quite boring -- unless you do insist on finding the rotines of that European HP pocket calculator users' library.
I've modified my suggestion, so it shows initial directions at both ends and the distance converted to km. In addition, start and end point will be kept in sequence as entered, so if for next run one point changes only, only lon and lat of the other must be entered. In following exampe both remain the same.
BidirGC.gif
A more convenient version
BidirGC.gif (5.15 KiB) Viewed 574 times
(Sorry, my printer simulator does not use DBC, so the 'lazy T' in line 13 is shown as >> what stands for alpha append.)

Following the hex dump of the corresponding RAW file.
Code: Select all
C6 00 F8 00 42 49 44 49 52 47 43 A3 AD E0 00 01
A3 AE 9C 01 F3 49 48 3D 9B 72 7E 11 1A 18 15 12
42 F2 44 3D 9B 73 F4 7F 20 4B 4D 7E 02 CE 07 CE
09 CE 07 CE 08 CE 0A CE 08 C0 00 0F
Edit/copy-edit/paste it to a hex editor (a simple one will do) and save it with suffix .raw and a name that tags it "for V41". To use it in V41 read it by Menu/File/Get User Code...
Now I hope it's you who laughs because it works.
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