Users' Program Library Europe

Programs for HP-41

Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:59 pm

Hello,
Is it still possible to obtain (purchase, beg, borrow, whatever) programs from the old Users' Program Library Europe that used to be so active??
There are several programs in their old catalogue that I would like to try.
Thanks.
... Martin Potter
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:49 am

ve3oat wrote:There are several programs in their old catalogue that I would like to try.

    i) where did you find that catalogue?
    ii) the installation of V41 comes with plenty of programs, see Index.txt in its installation folder.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:40 pm

Hi, mike-sgtg,

Thanks for replying.

i) the catalogue is called "HP Users' Program Library Europe Catalogue" and it is on the massive listing (thumb drive) from the HP Museum. The programs are :
60564D calculating Great Circle paths and bearings
60014D coaxial cable impedances
60170D better curve fitting

ii) thanks for that lead. I will explore the listing there, although what I am looking for is pretty specialized and I don't expect to find them there. But will look anyway because ... well, you just never know what might be found! ;)

Thanks again.
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:56 pm

OK, now I see! Forgive me, please, I am just a newbie here.

I see that V41 is an *emulator* and the files for running it are coded somehow for the emulator.

Actually, I am running a dyed in the wool HP-41CV hardware calculator. I think what I need now is some way to translate the V41 .raw files into readable ASCII that I can enter into my HP41. Am I on the right track so far, or is it more complicated than that?

Thanks for any help.
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:25 pm

Hello Martin!
ve3oat wrote:I see that V41 is an *emulator* and the files for running it are coded somehow for the emulator.

The format is simple the binary representation of the program in storage of an HP41. Alas no checksum, no meta-data, not a least hint that it's for V41. You could use those RAW files also in Emu42 when simulating an HP-42S. It works if you are lucky, no: mostly.
Actually, I am running a dyed in the wool HP-41CV hardware calculator. I think what I need now is some way to translate the V41 .raw files into readable ASCII that I can enter into my HP41. Am I on the right track so far, or is it more complicated than that?

It depends. If your goall is nothing but transfer 2..3 routines just manually my advice is to load in V41 the HP-IL module (Menu/File/Edit..., hit Add and pick the file hpil.mod), download and install ILPer, that is a program that simulates a bundle of virtual IL devices, one of them acts like a printer, run in same time with V41 and typically it should link right away, else read the description how to align port numbers, and you may print programs as human readable listing. Now take your "wool-inked" CV and do the "opto-mechanical copying by livelily interface".

If this is not a single shot only, there exists equipment to link your HP41CV with a PC.

Another option could be, loading the RAW files into a. m. Emu42, printing is somewhat simpler with it. But, you do need a ROM copy of HP42S :mrgreen:

BTW, if you find 60564D calculating Great Circle paths and bearings please let me know, I'd like to see how it's done. Ah.. V41 includes Navigation Module (but not the Schenk Yacht module it seems).
And in case the 'curves' in 60170D better curve fitting are nothing but straight lines, then you find my solution in here.

Best,
M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:43 am

Hi, mike-stgt,

(Sorry about getting your name wrong.) Thanks very much for all of that. A lot to digest there! I can see that I will be busy for a while, solving this "little" problem. Yes, finding those programs that I wanted is a sort of "one off" thing, but I can see that there is a lot of interesting stuff in the V41 emulator that you pointed me to. More incentive to proceed further!

I had not intended to get into emulation but there is obviously useful stuff there and it might (probably?) lead to what I had wanted originally, just by a different route than I had imagined.

You mentioned the programs from the NAV module. The "GC" program in it does almost what I want, but gives a bearing only for the one end. Not so good for radio communication applications, where it is nice (often required) to have the azimuth at both ends of the radio path. I ignored that and wrote a little bit of HP41 code around the GC program so I could use it, and give me the distance in km instead of GC's nautical miles. But it is kludgey and I am still looking for a program that quickly and easily gives distances in km and bearings or azimuths at both ends.

Thanks, too, for the link to your curve fitting program. And all the other stuff on that page!! Wow. Some very interesting things there.

Thanks very much for your help with this. More things to think about! Never stop learning, they say.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:36 am

Hello Martin,

ve3oat wrote:Is it still possible to obtain (purchase, beg, borrow, whatever) programs from the old Users' Program Library Europe that used to be so active??

The USA version of the Users' Program Library has been lost but the most of the European version is kept in the attic of one of the HPCC member.

ve3oat wrote:it is on the massive listing (thumb drive) from the HP Museum.

You may also consider buying the latest HHC 2021 USB Drive from Eric Rechlin.

ve3oat wrote:Actually, I am running a dyed in the wool HP-41CV hardware calculator

Mike suggestion to buy the PIL-Box is a great one.
You will need:
HP-IL side: HP-41CV+HP-IL Module ↔ HP-IL cables ↔ PIL-Box
USB side: PIL-Box ↔ USB cable ↔ computer ↔ virtual HP-IL peripherals software ↔ virtual tape/floppy (aka LIF volume)

Some pointers ..
  • PIL-Box : HP-IL to USB interface from Jean-François Garnier
  • Virtual HP-IL : virtual HP-IL peripherals from Christoph Gießelink (Windows)
  • pyILPer : virtual HP-IL peripherals from Joachim Siebold (Windows/macOS/Linux)
  • LIF Utils : LIF file manipulation utilities from Joachim Siebold (Windows/macOS/Linux)
  • Clonix-D & NoV-64d : Flash & FRAM HP-41 modules from Diego Díaz (Configuration software running on Windows)
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:38 pm

ve3oat wrote:[...] I ignored that and wrote a little bit of HP41 code around the GC program so I could use it, and give me the distance in km instead of GC's nautical miles. But it is kludgey and I am still looking for a program that quickly and easily gives distances in km and bearings or azimuths at both ends.

In the hope my suggestion may be less "kludgey" --
BidirGC.gif
GC one-way and back again
BidirGC.gif (4.14 KiB) Viewed 1363474 times

but I left out the nmi -> km conversion. "IH" is the reverse "HI" (initial heading) at the oposite end. Using the figures from the manual it shows i) the initial GC heading at start and end differs by ~20°, and ii) the two locations are left swapped in storage. If that is a problem you may add few lines to swing them back.

/M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:00 am

Dear Mike and Sylvain,

Wow! So many suggestions and so much information and things to try! I am almost overwhelmed by your help.

Sylvain -- Thanks for mentioning the HPCC. In fact, I joined the organization just a few weeks ago and am looking forward to receiving the next copy of their DataFile publication. Following your suggestion, I will certainly explore their holdings in depth, and maybe contacting that member with the attic. Also, thanks for mentioning the HHC USB drive, of which I was not aware. If it is anything like the Museum of HP Computers thumb drive, it will be worth having too.

Mike -- Thank you very much for the BIDIRGC code. It certainly looks less kludgey than what I was working with. I was hoping to be able to tell you how well your code works, but I got hung up on ... (don't laugh now) ... how to enter certain expressions. Must get out my manual and figure this out! I seem to have forgotten an awful lot since the days in the 1980s and early 1990s when I programmed and used my HP41 almost every day. Until recently, my calculator was unused. (Being 80 years old now, forgetfulness seems to be a way of life. I can not recommend it.)

So, the onus is on me to study more, relearn more, and keep exploring. And I thought the question that I posted here was a simple one. (I can hear you both chuckling to yourselves.) Thank you again, both of you, for all of your help and encouragement.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:12 pm

ve3oat wrote:don't laugh now
Why not? When if not now? And, pardon me, about what? :mrgreen:
And I thought the question that I posted here was a simple one
It is, quite boring -- unless you do insist on finding the rotines of that European HP pocket calculator users' library.
I've modified my suggestion, so it shows initial directions at both ends and the distance converted to km. In addition, start and end point will be kept in sequence as entered, so if for next run one point changes only, only lon and lat of the other must be entered. In following exampe both remain the same.
BidirGC.gif
A more convenient version
BidirGC.gif (5.15 KiB) Viewed 1363456 times
(Sorry, my printer simulator does not use DBC, so the 'lazy T' in line 13 is shown as >> what stands for alpha append.)

Following the hex dump of the corresponding RAW file.
Code: Select all
C6 00 F8 00 42 49 44 49 52 47 43 A3 AD E0 00 01
A3 AE 9C 01 F3 49 48 3D 9B 72 7E 11 1A 18 15 12
42 F2 44 3D 9B 73 F4 7F 20 4B 4D 7E 02 CE 07 CE
09 CE 07 CE 08 CE 0A CE 08 C0 00 0F
Edit/copy-edit/paste it to a hex editor (a simple one will do) and save it with suffix .raw and a name that tags it "for V41". To use it in V41 read it by Menu/File/Get User Code...
Now I hope it's you who laughs because it works.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:41 am

Hi, Mike,

I am sorry -- my meager attempts at humour were perhaps misunderstood. My friends know me to be self-deprecating and always ready to laugh at my own mistakes, hoping to turn the occasion into a positive learning experience. Some people get up-tight when they make a mistake because they are afraid of being criticized. That is not me. I have even made the mistake of assuming that others will laugh with me. Anyway, enough about that.

Thank you very much for the new code. Your revised code is beautiful, elegant even, and very compact. (I suspect you are a professional programmer.) Unfortunately I must have made a mistake entering it into my calculator, despite reviewing it several times. The value calculated for IH is always the same as for HI, and I haven't figured out why yet. I will keep working at it. Your version is much more compact than what I had developed (which solved only the conversion part of the exercise). I suspect that my mistake is similar to what I had done before, not making correct use of the ALPHA-SHIFT symbols listed on the back of the HP41. I had forgotten all about them until it suddenly dawned on me, almost too late.

Thanks again for your help. This has been a great learning experience, and it is not even finished yet!
All the Best,
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:39 am

ve3oat wrote:Your revised code is beautiful, elegant even, and very compact.
That is not a criterion. It works for me and for you not, that's the challenge. BTW, my program is prepared to be used together with a printer. If printing is not possible it will stop at line 14 showing distance in km and you must hit R/S to finish it. Otherwise start and end point will stay switched.
Unfortunately I must have made a mistake entering it into my calculator,
So you do have the Nav ROM with your "wool-inked" CV?
The value calculated for IH is always the same as for HI, and I haven't figured out why yet.
In case you did enter the program in V41 you may print it and compare the two listings. If that does not help, you may show your print-out here, maybe 25 eyes see more than just 2.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:21 pm

Hello Martin,

ve3oat wrote:Dear Mike and Sylvain,
Sylvain -- Thanks for mentioning the HPCC. In fact, I joined the organization just a few weeks ago and am looking forward to receiving the next copy of their DataFile publication. Following your suggestion, I will certainly explore their holdings in depth, and maybe contacting that member with the attic. Also, thanks for mentioning the HHC USB drive, of which I was not aware. If it is anything like the Museum of HP Computers thumb drive, it will be worth having too.

For the thumb drive I am assuming that you mean The Museum of HP Calculators and not the HP Computer Museum which is another web site.

Other reference material:

There are tons of other web sites related to HP calculators but these should be enough for now.

If your 41CV is a fullnut you may consider upgrading your calculator motherboard with the 41CL board → 41CL Calculator

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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:52 pm

Hi, Mike,

OK, I got it working, but I had to rewrite your lines 16 through 21 with something more simplistic and straightforward so that I could follow the logic of it and debug what I wrote. Now both HI and IH give the correct results.

For some reason, I can't get the APPEND instruction to work, so I changed your line 11 to provide the same information without KM appended ("D KM=" instead). Yes, I do have the NAVIGATION ROM (and a few others) in my calculator, but I have no peripherals like a printer or HP-IL.

And, No, I have not tried the V41 emulator yet. I do intend to do that but it won't happen right away and until after I have caught up with my chores (winter coming).

Question -- In the listing of your code, what is the significance of the two dots, one each before and after END? My program works fine with just END but maybe I am missing something.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:13 am

Hi, Sylvain,

Yes, sorry, for the thumb drive I did mean the Museum of HP CALCULATORS, not computers. (Please excuse the foggy brain.) And thanks very much for that list of links for reference material. I had heard of only Kees Vandersanden's site, so I can see that my free time will be strongly taken up as I explore the others in your list.

In fact, my 41CV does seem to be a fullnut (with square corners on the display, right?), and wouldn't I love to have a 41CL!! But it is kind of beyond my limited means (retired). For several months I have been keeping watch for a used CL, but have concluded that no one ever sells their CL. Old C's and CV's and even CX's are sometimes sold, but no one ever gets rid of their HP41CL.

Thanks again for all the helpful information. You and Mike have given me a lot of encouragement and I really appreciate it.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:50 am

ve3oat wrote:OK, I got it working, but I had to rewrite your lines 16 through 21 with something more simplistic and straightforward
My goal was to swap the endpoints without changing the stack.
For some reason, I can't get the APPEND instruction to work
I start to grasp your order not to laugh. Maybe in all those collections Sylvain listed you find the manual. If I remember correctly there also existed somewhere a description about how to enter programs from listings. Could have come either with users' library or some solution book. I never needed it, alas I have no idea where to look for it.
I have no peripherals like a printer or HP-IL.
In that case I recomend to put a CF 21 before the last AVIEW (the one before LBL 01) to prevent it halts program execution. This is to ensure endpoints are swapped back.
Question -- In the listing of your code, what is the significance of the two dots, one each before and after END?
The "dotted" .END. is the permanent one you can't remove (normaly). That is almost all in what it differs from other ENDs.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:45 pm

Martin,

mike-stgt wrote:
For some reason, I can't get the APPEND instruction to work
I start to grasp your order not to laugh. Maybe in all those collections Sylvain listed you find the manual. If I remember correctly there also existed somewhere a description about how to enter programs from listings. Could have come either with users' library or some solution book. I never needed it, alas I have no idea where to look for it.

The APPEND functionality exist when you are in alpha mode, note that the behavior is different in program mode than in run mode.
If you look at the back of your calculator you will see that to use APPEND you need to press the [SHIFT] (aka YELLOW or GOLD) key then the [XEQ] key in [ALPHA] mode.

A run mode example
Code: Select all
[ALPHA]         ; activate alpha mode
ABC             ; enter some text "ABC"
[ALPHA]         ; deactivate alpha mode
                ; ALPHA="ABC"
[ALPHA]         ; activate alpha mode
DEF             ; text "DEF" has replaced text "ABC"
[ALPHA]         ; deactivate alpha mode
                ; ALPHA="DEF"
[ALPHA]         ; activate alpha mode
[SHIFT] [XEQ]   ; activate APPEND, you should see a small cursor after the F letter
GHI             ; text "GHI" has been added after text "DEF" and not replaced it
[ALPHA]         ; deactivate alpha mode
                ; ALPHA="DEFGHI"

A program mode example
Code: Select all
INPUT                               DISPLAY         Comment
----------------------------------  --------------  -----------------------
[PRGM]                              00 REG xxx      ; activate program mode, xxx = number of registers left
[GTO] [.] [.]                       00 REG xxx      ; start a new program space, xxx = number of registers left
[SHIFT] [LBL] [ALPHA] AAAA [ALPHA]  01 LBL 'AAAA    ; create a global label AAAA
[ALPHA] ABC [ALPHA]                 02 'ABC         ; replace ALPHA content with ABC text → ALPHA="ABC"
[ALPHA] [SHIFT] [XEQ] DEF [ALPHA]   03 '˫DEF        ; append DEF text to ALPHA content    → ALPHA="ABCDEF"
[ALPHA] [SHIFT] [R/S] [ALPHA]       04 AVIEW        ; display ALPHA content               → display "ABCDEF"
[GTO] [.] [.]                       00 REG xxx      ; add an END to the program and start a new program space, xxx = number of registers left
[PRGM]                              0.0000          ; deactivate program mode
[XEQ] [ALPHA] AAAA [ALPHA]          ABCDEF          ; run program AAAA and display result
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:29 pm

pcscote wrote:... note that the behavior is different in program mode than in run mode.
Your run mode example ends with DEFGHI in alpha while the program ends with ABCDEF in alpha register. Is that the difference you wanted to emphasize? Or is it something else? Please explain.
The USA version of the Users' Program Library has been lost
Warren's DVD comes with a directory Users Library USA which contains besides a Series 40 Software Catalog (Aug83) about 5..6 dozen programs (PDF, RAW, TXT=listing, and BIN=?). The catalog comprises 132 pages of small printed abstracts, so if only ~70 routines "survived", I would say, it is virtually lost.
most of the European version is kept in the attic of one of the HPCC member
Is there a remote chance to get access to the three programs Martin is looking for?

BTW -- little subject drift -- the installatiion of V41 comes with (besides a remarkable bulk of ROMs) an amazing lot of programs, HP67 packs, HP67 and -41 solution books. Alas, that is not all what could be of interest. Recently I missed the examples shown in the manual of a plug-in ROM. Is there a chance some active archivists could compile a more complete set? It would be some kind of appreciation for Christoph's effort maintaining V41. I have the impression that with his service V41 became the preferred HP-41 emulator for Windows users. He will only care for the emulation, he is for sure not interrested in HP41 programs.

Or are there with the time so few follower left so this effort is not worth it?

Best,
M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:28 pm

Hello Mike,

mike-stgt wrote:
pcscote wrote:... note that the behavior is different in program mode than in run mode.
Your run mode example ends with DEFGHI in alpha while the program ends with ABCDEF in alpha register. Is that the difference you wanted to emphasize? Or is it something else? Please explain.


I was attempting to show the alpha replace and append functionality in non-programming mode (example 1) and in programming mode (example 2).
The two examples are different, results is expected to not match because different text and steps are being used.
Sorry if I was not clear enough.

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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby rprosperi » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:51 am

mike-stgt wrote:
most of the European version is kept in the attic of one of the HPCC member
Is there a remote chance to get access to the three programs Martin is looking for?
M.


Sadly it is unlikely these, or almost any other, User Library programs saved in the HPCC Library can be obtained. It was reported in an HPCC meeting several months ago that nearly all of these Library Programs were discarded by mistake. When asked which escaped, a member in touch with the member that has them stored was not sure, but he guestimated that less than 10% survived. It has also been very difficult for non-London area members to access HPCC library items since the Pandemic began, though it has been claimed that this will improve once things get back to normal. While it's not intuitive to me how the Pandemic prevents someone from searching the attic and either scanning and emailing a document or even mailing it, I also know nothing of the arrangements. Despite such tactical obstacles, I'm thankful HPCC is preserving as much of the library as they have.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:49 am

rprosperi wrote:Sadly it is unlikely [...]
LOL! Tnx 4 the details. That's like real life -- it's an experiment and extinction is part of the game.
Reminds me a bit to Old Babylonian maths, e. g. Plimpton 322, a fragment of a cuneiform tablet (part of it was lost or separated "recently" because there are traces of modern glue on the rhs), so today exist several ideas about its development and usage in ancient times. Obviously there was some know-how, but also the know-why?
In contrast to the users' libraries (warning: link lacks PC), where, also the know-why is well defined in calculator manuals, there is so much trouble with the know-how. No reproach, everyone does his best in this experiment. After I saw few of those routines I do not waste more time with it. But, frankly, it is likewise (but less severe) with the solution books, quite rarely I found something precisely applicable to my tasks.
My way was (and still is mostly, anyway) to develop my own solutions, they do what I like and I like what the do -- for me. There is some progress since old babylonian times (even though an HP Prime is not of much help for sophomores to deduce by method of least squares (a standard approach) the formula of arithmetic mean). There was no CAS arround when HP41 was introduced, but today it could help in some cases to find simpler routines. For me the PPC ROM manuall was a role model for programming (albeit there are flaws, e. g. in GN), first and foremost the program's exemplary documentation (a thorough description which deserves this term) what (also) leads to the principle: "think first".
/M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:36 pm

Mike and Sylvain,

I am very glad to see that the discussion here has moved beyond my initial, simple question. Very interesting!

My goal was to swap the endpoints without changing the stack.


Mike, I thought you might have been doing something like that. In fact the very straightforward code that I wrote does, by accident, preserve the stack, too. (It might have happened unconsciously because of my early training, writing in assembler for a DEC PDP-8 in a small data acquisition lab.) Anyway, repeated runs of my program, based mostly on your code, find the stack still in the same order.

And the APPEND instruction. Thank you, both of you. I have been slowly working my way through the manual to try to refresh my memory of at least some of what I used to know. (Yes, I still have the original, paper manual that came with my first 41CV.) It is a slow process, and at my age ... well ... But all those links and references to on-line documentation that you gave me will not be wasted. Thanks for them.

My experience here has been most satisfying and my appreciation for your help would be hard to describe without sounding exaggerated. So I will simply say, Thanks very much to both of you for everything.

Code on!
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:35 am

ve3oat wrote:...because of my early training, writing in assembler for a DEC PDP-8...
Thus I have no doubt you may code on your own the (at the time missing) coaxial cable impedances program, which then will be worth to publish.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:45 pm

Oh, Mike, you give me too much credit. That was all many years ago, early 1970s, two careers ago. While I still remember some of the basic principles, I have long forgotten all of the tricks for optimizing and "neating up" etc. I can probably write an HP41 program nowadays that would satisfy my own needs, but I doubt anyone else would want to use it. "It won't be pretty", if you know what I mean. <Permission granted to laugh> Thanks for the thought, though. ;)
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:00 am

Here once more the listing, now with the "lazy T" as text append symbol.
BidirGC.gif
BidirGC.gif (2.74 KiB) Viewed 1363138 times
Up to now I refused in my oo82162A "IL to IR bridge" printer any code page switching for a single character only. But it is much simpler than explaining "sorry, here this stands for that".
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:03 am

Mike,
Excellent! Have you considered contributing your code to the MoHPC User Forum software library?
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:50 am

ve3oat wrote:Have you considered contributing your code to the MoHPC User Forum software library?
For sure not! -- Hi Martin!
  • MoHPC is for almost all HP calculators, on hp41.org almost all is about the HP41. Likewise you wouldn't go to a diner for a Chateaubriand.
  • My last append was not about the "GC forth and back", the main message is: I changed my oo82162A Printer Simulator.
  • A funniy moderator once removed (almost) all my appends from that other forum, because I lauded someone who published there his -- well, it is the name of that programming language -- Brainfuck interpreter on an HP-15C. "We want to be a family-friendly site." OK kids, over there you'll never learn about the intensification of brain-twisters. (Frankly, the main achievements from age of the Enlightenment seems its nowadays countermovement.)
Edit: I've set the name of the programming language to a tiny font what should look like whispering it
Last edited by mike-stgt on Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby Garth » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:33 pm

It is unfortunate that someone decided to give that programming language that name. I would never use it or promote it with a name like that, and I'm sure that's the case with many other people too.
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