Users' Program Library Europe

Programs for HP-41

Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:41 am

Hi, Mike,

I am sorry -- my meager attempts at humour were perhaps misunderstood. My friends know me to be self-deprecating and always ready to laugh at my own mistakes, hoping to turn the occasion into a positive learning experience. Some people get up-tight when they make a mistake because they are afraid of being criticized. That is not me. I have even made the mistake of assuming that others will laugh with me. Anyway, enough about that.

Thank you very much for the new code. Your revised code is beautiful, elegant even, and very compact. (I suspect you are a professional programmer.) Unfortunately I must have made a mistake entering it into my calculator, despite reviewing it several times. The value calculated for IH is always the same as for HI, and I haven't figured out why yet. I will keep working at it. Your version is much more compact than what I had developed (which solved only the conversion part of the exercise). I suspect that my mistake is similar to what I had done before, not making correct use of the ALPHA-SHIFT symbols listed on the back of the HP41. I had forgotten all about them until it suddenly dawned on me, almost too late.

Thanks again for your help. This has been a great learning experience, and it is not even finished yet!
All the Best,
... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:39 am

ve3oat wrote:Your revised code is beautiful, elegant even, and very compact.
That is not a criterion. It works for me and for you not, that's the challenge. BTW, my program is prepared to be used together with a printer. If printing is not possible it will stop at line 14 showing distance in km and you must hit R/S to finish it. Otherwise start and end point will stay switched.
Unfortunately I must have made a mistake entering it into my calculator,
So you do have the Nav ROM with your "wool-inked" CV?
The value calculated for IH is always the same as for HI, and I haven't figured out why yet.
In case you did enter the program in V41 you may print it and compare the two listings. If that does not help, you may show your print-out here, maybe 25 eyes see more than just 2.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:21 pm

Hello Martin,

ve3oat wrote:Dear Mike and Sylvain,
Sylvain -- Thanks for mentioning the HPCC. In fact, I joined the organization just a few weeks ago and am looking forward to receiving the next copy of their DataFile publication. Following your suggestion, I will certainly explore their holdings in depth, and maybe contacting that member with the attic. Also, thanks for mentioning the HHC USB drive, of which I was not aware. If it is anything like the Museum of HP Computers thumb drive, it will be worth having too.

For the thumb drive I am assuming that you mean The Museum of HP Calculators and not the HP Computer Museum which is another web site.

Other reference material:

There are tons of other web sites related to HP calculators but these should be enough for now.

If your 41CV is a fullnut you may consider upgrading your calculator motherboard with the 41CL board → 41CL Calculator

Sylvain
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:52 pm

Hi, Mike,

OK, I got it working, but I had to rewrite your lines 16 through 21 with something more simplistic and straightforward so that I could follow the logic of it and debug what I wrote. Now both HI and IH give the correct results.

For some reason, I can't get the APPEND instruction to work, so I changed your line 11 to provide the same information without KM appended ("D KM=" instead). Yes, I do have the NAVIGATION ROM (and a few others) in my calculator, but I have no peripherals like a printer or HP-IL.

And, No, I have not tried the V41 emulator yet. I do intend to do that but it won't happen right away and until after I have caught up with my chores (winter coming).

Question -- In the listing of your code, what is the significance of the two dots, one each before and after END? My program works fine with just END but maybe I am missing something.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby ve3oat » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:13 am

Hi, Sylvain,

Yes, sorry, for the thumb drive I did mean the Museum of HP CALCULATORS, not computers. (Please excuse the foggy brain.) And thanks very much for that list of links for reference material. I had heard of only Kees Vandersanden's site, so I can see that my free time will be strongly taken up as I explore the others in your list.

In fact, my 41CV does seem to be a fullnut (with square corners on the display, right?), and wouldn't I love to have a 41CL!! But it is kind of beyond my limited means (retired). For several months I have been keeping watch for a used CL, but have concluded that no one ever sells their CL. Old C's and CV's and even CX's are sometimes sold, but no one ever gets rid of their HP41CL.

Thanks again for all the helpful information. You and Mike have given me a lot of encouragement and I really appreciate it.

... Martin
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:50 am

ve3oat wrote:OK, I got it working, but I had to rewrite your lines 16 through 21 with something more simplistic and straightforward
My goal was to swap the endpoints without changing the stack.
For some reason, I can't get the APPEND instruction to work
I start to grasp your order not to laugh. Maybe in all those collections Sylvain listed you find the manual. If I remember correctly there also existed somewhere a description about how to enter programs from listings. Could have come either with users' library or some solution book. I never needed it, alas I have no idea where to look for it.
I have no peripherals like a printer or HP-IL.
In that case I recomend to put a CF 21 before the last AVIEW (the one before LBL 01) to prevent it halts program execution. This is to ensure endpoints are swapped back.
Question -- In the listing of your code, what is the significance of the two dots, one each before and after END?
The "dotted" .END. is the permanent one you can't remove (normaly). That is almost all in what it differs from other ENDs.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:45 pm

Martin,

mike-stgt wrote:
For some reason, I can't get the APPEND instruction to work
I start to grasp your order not to laugh. Maybe in all those collections Sylvain listed you find the manual. If I remember correctly there also existed somewhere a description about how to enter programs from listings. Could have come either with users' library or some solution book. I never needed it, alas I have no idea where to look for it.

The APPEND functionality exist when you are in alpha mode, note that the behavior is different in program mode than in run mode.
If you look at the back of your calculator you will see that to use APPEND you need to press the [SHIFT] (aka YELLOW or GOLD) key then the [XEQ] key in [ALPHA] mode.

A run mode example
Code: Select all
[ALPHA]         ; activate alpha mode
ABC             ; enter some text "ABC"
[ALPHA]         ; deactivate alpha mode
                ; ALPHA="ABC"
[ALPHA]         ; activate alpha mode
DEF             ; text "DEF" has replaced text "ABC"
[ALPHA]         ; deactivate alpha mode
                ; ALPHA="DEF"
[ALPHA]         ; activate alpha mode
[SHIFT] [XEQ]   ; activate APPEND, you should see a small cursor after the F letter
GHI             ; text "GHI" has been added after text "DEF" and not replaced it
[ALPHA]         ; deactivate alpha mode
                ; ALPHA="DEFGHI"

A program mode example
Code: Select all
INPUT                               DISPLAY         Comment
----------------------------------  --------------  -----------------------
[PRGM]                              00 REG xxx      ; activate program mode, xxx = number of registers left
[GTO] [.] [.]                       00 REG xxx      ; start a new program space, xxx = number of registers left
[SHIFT] [LBL] [ALPHA] AAAA [ALPHA]  01 LBL 'AAAA    ; create a global label AAAA
[ALPHA] ABC [ALPHA]                 02 'ABC         ; replace ALPHA content with ABC text → ALPHA="ABC"
[ALPHA] [SHIFT] [XEQ] DEF [ALPHA]   03 '˫DEF        ; append DEF text to ALPHA content    → ALPHA="ABCDEF"
[ALPHA] [SHIFT] [R/S] [ALPHA]       04 AVIEW        ; display ALPHA content               → display "ABCDEF"
[GTO] [.] [.]                       00 REG xxx      ; add an END to the program and start a new program space, xxx = number of registers left
[PRGM]                              0.0000          ; deactivate program mode
[XEQ] [ALPHA] AAAA [ALPHA]          ABCDEF          ; run program AAAA and display result
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby mike-stgt » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:29 pm

pcscote wrote:... note that the behavior is different in program mode than in run mode.
Your run mode example ends with DEFGHI in alpha while the program ends with ABCDEF in alpha register. Is that the difference you wanted to emphasize? Or is it something else? Please explain.
The USA version of the Users' Program Library has been lost
Warren's DVD comes with a directory Users Library USA which contains besides a Series 40 Software Catalog (Aug83) about 5..6 dozen programs (PDF, RAW, TXT=listing, and BIN=?). The catalog comprises 132 pages of small printed abstracts, so if only ~70 routines "survived", I would say, it is virtually lost.
most of the European version is kept in the attic of one of the HPCC member
Is there a remote chance to get access to the three programs Martin is looking for?

BTW -- little subject drift -- the installatiion of V41 comes with (besides a remarkable bulk of ROMs) an amazing lot of programs, HP67 packs, HP67 and -41 solution books. Alas, that is not all what could be of interest. Recently I missed the examples shown in the manual of a plug-in ROM. Is there a chance some active archivists could compile a more complete set? It would be some kind of appreciation for Christoph's effort maintaining V41. I have the impression that with his service V41 became the preferred HP-41 emulator for Windows users. He will only care for the emulation, he is for sure not interrested in HP41 programs.

Or are there with the time so few follower left so this effort is not worth it?

Best,
M.
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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby pcscote » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:28 pm

Hello Mike,

mike-stgt wrote:
pcscote wrote:... note that the behavior is different in program mode than in run mode.
Your run mode example ends with DEFGHI in alpha while the program ends with ABCDEF in alpha register. Is that the difference you wanted to emphasize? Or is it something else? Please explain.


I was attempting to show the alpha replace and append functionality in non-programming mode (example 1) and in programming mode (example 2).
The two examples are different, results is expected to not match because different text and steps are being used.
Sorry if I was not clear enough.

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Re: Users' Program Library Europe

Postby rprosperi » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:51 am

mike-stgt wrote:
most of the European version is kept in the attic of one of the HPCC member
Is there a remote chance to get access to the three programs Martin is looking for?
M.


Sadly it is unlikely these, or almost any other, User Library programs saved in the HPCC Library can be obtained. It was reported in an HPCC meeting several months ago that nearly all of these Library Programs were discarded by mistake. When asked which escaped, a member in touch with the member that has them stored was not sure, but he guestimated that less than 10% survived. It has also been very difficult for non-London area members to access HPCC library items since the Pandemic began, though it has been claimed that this will improve once things get back to normal. While it's not intuitive to me how the Pandemic prevents someone from searching the attic and either scanning and emailing a document or even mailing it, I also know nothing of the arrangements. Despite such tactical obstacles, I'm thankful HPCC is preserving as much of the library as they have.
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