Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

82143A 82162A 82240B 2225B

Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby floppy_stuttgart » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:14 pm

Hello,
I have none of these. But we see several to be sold on few auction platforms.
What is difference? The best? The bugs?
For now, just for curiosity (my impression is, the 82162A is the newest model due to the higher numbering).
Regards,
Pascal
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby Garth » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:22 pm

The 82162A goes on HP-IL. If you're using HP-IL for other things too (as I do), the IL module is taking up a port, and if that means you don't have enough ports for your other modules, you would definitely want the 162. The 143 plugs right into the 41 without HP-IL. I'm sure there are other differences but I'll let someone else more knowledgeable address those. I have only printed through HP-IL, whether through the 162, the Thinkjet, or through an interface converter to parallel or RS-232 to a dot-matrix impact printer.
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby rprosperi » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:25 pm

Garth hit the important difference; HP-IL use is the key factor to sway your choice, since if you want to use an 81262A, you must also own, or purchase, an HP-IL interface, which is at least another $100.

Other, smaller differences:

-- 82143 cannot be used to print barcodes, while the 82162 can
-- 82162 seems to get longer use out of a given battery charge
-- 82162 supports a few more escape sequences, but only obscure, hardly used stuff.

Otherwise, for basic use, they are pretty equivalent.
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby mike-stgt » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:43 pm

Side-by-side listing of CAT 2:
Code: Select all
-PRINTER-     -PRINTER 2F
ACA           ACA
ACCHR         ACCHR
ACCOL         ACCOL
ACSPEC        ACSPEC
ACX           ACX
BLDSPEC       BLDSPEC
LIST          LIST
PRA           PRA
`PRAXIS       `PRAXIS
PRBUF         PRBUF
PRFLAGS       PRFLAGS
PRKEYS        PRKEYS
PRP           PRP
`PRPLOT       `PRPLOT
`PRPLOTP      `PRPLOTP
PRREG         PRREG
PRREGX        PRREGX
PR§           PRΣ
PRSTK         PRSTK
PRX           PRX
REGPLOT       REGPLOT
SKPCHR        SKPCHR
SKPCOL        SKPCOL
STKPLOT       STKPLOT
              FMT
              --
"--" just acts almost as a NOP:
Code: Select all
6394 0AD -
6395 02D -
6396 3E0 RTN
Description of "FMT" you easily find in the manual here. Moreover a nice hint about barcodes.
Before you buy one I recommend to test both virtually. Good emulators/simulations may give you the chance to dig out more about that "obscure, hardly used stuff" (end cit). Shivering adventures ahead like 8-bit mode, goose bumps guaranteed :mrgreen:

And -- if it's about numbering -- 82242A exceeds both, 82143A and 82162A.
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"acts almost as a NOP"

Postby mike-stgt » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:58 am

One more word about that
... acts almost as a NOP.
It's a silly example only, but results of following sequence differ
Code: Select all
 01 CLST
 02 5
 03 ENTER^
 04 NOP
 05 2
 06 PRSTK
 07 .END.
depending which NOP you use, from PANAME.ROM or from ZEN.ROM.
The quite more interesting question is, for what purpose could we need a stack-lift-aware NOP?
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby jeffcalc » Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:20 pm

mike-stgt wrote:Side-by-side listing of CAT 2:
Code: Select all
-PRINTER-     -PRINTER 2F       
...
PR§           PRΣ           
...
STKPLOT       STKPLOT
              FMT           
              --



1) PRINTER 2F ? Genuine HP82162A is PRINTER 2E (edited: see note below).
HP82143 PRINTER is internally version 1E

2) named PRΣ on both printers actually

3) There are curious effects if the FMT instruction is found in a program with HP82143 printer plugged in.

J-F
[Edited: "PRINTER 2E" is not really the version of the 82162 but the version of the printer ROM in the HP-IL module]
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby mike-stgt » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:00 am

Dear sir,
most respected Esquire,
bonjour Jean-Francois !

jeffcalc wrote:1) PRINTER 2F ? Genuine HP82162A is PRINTER 2E (edited: see note below).
HP82143 PRINTER is internally version 1E
PRINTER 2F is my modification of 2E for use with 82240B that minuscule differs from 82162A. By 'use' I mean virtual only, with V41 as IL-controller.

2) named PRΣ on both printers actually
Yes correct, my mistake.
(I prepared the CAT 2 listing of 82143A on my Nut firmware interpreter, which lacks 2-byte-chars like "U+03a3", hence it's transliterated to '§'.)

3) There are curious effects if the FMT instruction is found in a program with HP82143 printer plugged in.
It shows as XROM 29,25 and executed disiplays NONEXISTENT -- the only curious effect that you made me test that :(

Best,
M.
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby jeffcalc » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:47 pm

Hallo Mike, dear and respected friend and HP-41 expert :)

mike-stgt wrote:PRINTER 2F is my modification of 2E for use with 82240B that minuscule differs from 82162A

Oh yes, now I remember you explained me already, sorry.

3) There are curious effects if the FMT instruction is found in a program with HP82143 printer plugged in.
It shows as XROM 29,25 and executed disiplays NONEXISTENT -- the only curious effect that you made me test that :(


That's curious, here is what happens for me in Emu41, with the 41CX ROM, nothing else:
1) load the HP-IL ROM, and insert FMT in a program,
2) remove the HP-IL ROM and load the 82143 printer ROM,
3) the FMT instruction is displayed as INSREC,
4) it seems to actually execute as INSREC too.

I just checked with V41, and the same happens.
I didn't check on a physical HP-41, I don't have the 82143 printer.
Curious , isn't it?

J-F
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby mike-stgt » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:39 pm

jeffcalc wrote:Curious , isn't it?

Bonjour Jean-Francois !

Once more you show me something I did not know yet. Again and again.

Yes, it certainly is remarkable. My first test was on a CV with ROMs HFF, so all was fine. But it seems there is a quirk in the 41CX when looking for the external function shown as XROM pp,qq when corresponding module is replaced by one with same ROM-ID but less functions. The query for the location of the module starts with page 5 (see RMAD10 @0810), after F the CX looks then at page 3:
Code: Select all
0810 330 RDROM
F000 000 Data   0
0811 366 ?A#C   X
0812 02B JNC    +05 0817
0813 222 C=C+1  PT
0814 3E3 JNC    -04 0810 RMAD10
0815 399 *
0816 0C6 NCGO   31E6     
31E6 0D0 LC     3
31E7 15C PT=    6
31E8 330 RDROM
3000 019 Data   25
31E9 366 ?A#C   X
31EA 360 CRTN
2F54 0C3 JNC    +18 2F6C XROMNF
I did no CPU trace yet, so with just this firmware trace it looks to me as if cmd @31E9 compares apples with pears, ROM-ID and function number are the same. That explains why this bug does not show with XROM 29,26. Alas I can't see yet why it only occurs when 82143A is present.

If my idea of the bug is correct, it should show also with other modules. Proof (41CX only):
  1. I plugged my VORANOGE which has a FAT of 3 entries only,
  2. entered in prgm mode the function RN,
  3. used RAMED (function of ZEN ROM) to modify it to A4,99 so it ought result in XROM 18,25
  4. after exit from RAMED I see INSREC -- Heureka! :)
Steps 2 and 3 avoid the need of looking for modules with same ROM-ID and one of them wth at least 25 function, entering its function 25 in a program and exchange the modules.

Another example: Assign CTYPE from PANAME ROM to a key of your choice, switch machine off, unplug PANAME, plug ZEN ROM, switch on, hit that key of first step (in user mode of course).

To fix the bug would take more investigation. (All tests shown here done with my Nut firmware interpreter.)

Note: due to heavy subject drift I started a new thread.
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Re: Differences between 82143A and 82162A?

Postby floppy_stuttgart » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:38 pm

Thanks for the hints here: since a guy was selling today to me his HP71B in excellent condition with 4x4Kb RAM and card-reader and HP-IL and 12 paper rolls and 82162A, I just bought it since the printer looks ok (nobody had anything against it in the forum). for reselling if I dont like it finally.
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