ILVideo80 "HP 92198" : how it works?

[floppy_stuttgart]

Hello,
the extract below is from the help file.
What happens on a Windows machine when using ILVideo80 and using the hotkeys T and M? A window is poping up?
How does it work? any commands must be used? I dont know the behaviour because I never had an "HP 92198" (I will try to find a manual of it).
Any advice is welcome.
I try to make it working on a linux 64bits started by "wine" and I am having still few issues with hotkeys therefore configuration file therefore.

Code: Select all

TCP/IP Setup...

ILVideo80 has an integrated TCP/IP server for receiving HP-IL frames from the preceding device and a TCP/IP client to transmit IL frames to the next device. This implements a virtual HP-IL over a PC network.

Choosing TCP/IP (IPv4/IPv6) as transport protocol gives the advantage of communicating with virtual HP-IL devices around the world if the host PC has access to the internet. Each virtual HP-IL device contains a TCP/IP server listening for data frames on the specified port number and a TCP/IP client sending data frames to a port of the next virtual device. A HP-IL data frame is normally 11 bits long, but as TCP/IP is a byte oriented protocol it is mapped to 16 bits (2 bytes). The remaining upper five bits are filled with zero (reserved for future use). The two bytes of a frame are transferred in network byte order.

Therefore you have three virtual HP-IL mode parameters:

    Out TCP/IP Address

    The "Out TCP/IP Address" identifies the host PC with the next virtual HP-IL device. If the next device is on the same computer use "localhost" or "127.0.0.1" for IPv4 or "::1" for IPv6 as TCP/IP address, otherwise the DNS name or the TCP/IP address of the next computer. (A device may be a simulated device or an IL frame sniffer.)
    Out Port (49152-65535)

    The TCP/IP Port number represents in the simulation a physical HP-IL cable. It must have the same number as the "In Port" of the subsequent device on the virtual IL.
    In Port (49152-65535)

    Here you must enter the same number as on the "Out Port" of the previous device on the virtual IL.

So each device is listening for HP-IL frames on it's in-port, processes the frames inside the device simulation, and send output frames to it's out-port.

The Port numbers are split into three groups:

    Well-known ports: 0-1023
    Registered ports: 1024-49151
    Dynamic, private or ephemeral ports: 49152-65535

For virtual IL you should use port numbers from the third group (49152-65535). Port numbers below 49152 are also accepted.

Open TCP/IP ports are nowadays a security problem when your PC is connected to the Internet. To protect your computer from unauthorised requests all modern operating systems contain a (personal) firewall which blocks attacks. By default all ILVideo80 TCP/IP traffic is being blocked too. Depending on your firewall you are asked at first usage of ILVideo80 in TCP/IP mode to permit the communication or you must beforehand enable manually the ILVideo80 program in your firewall. For security reasons you should restrict the rights of ILVideo80 to the local PC or not more than to the local LAN.

To set the above mentioned virtual HP-IL mode parameters call the "TCP/IP Setup..." item in the ILVideo80 system menu (you get it by Alt+Space Bar or a left mouse click on the symbol in the top left corner or a right mouse click on the title bar). After you finished the setup, press the "Start" button please. If the "Start" button is disabled, the virtual HP-IL interface is already running. So you have to "Stop" and restart the interface for activating the new settings.
Monitor Type Setup...

To set a new monitor type call the "Monitor Type Setup..." item in the ILVideo80 system menu (you get it by Alt+Space Bar or a left mouse click on the symbol in the top left corner or a right mouse click on the title bar). You can choose between

    Black & White
    Green
    Amber
    Custom

monochrome monitors. For the Custom monitor type you can freely define the fore- and background color, the other three types have preset values.

[Garth]

I have an HP92198 and the manual, and I've also kept Intel Hex image files of the EPROMs' contents. I should scan the manual and send the whole set to Warren to put on the site, along with the EPROM images. A cool thing about the EPROMs is that you could change the contents of one of them to change the character set. I won't be able to put it all together today or even this week though. Until I do, do you have questions about something in particular I could look up for you? I have only used the 92198 basically as a printer, to list things to view temporarily without consuming paper. It does have a lot of escape sequences though to allow the editing facilities you would expect in a product like this.

[mike-stgt]

... ILVideo80 and using the hotkeys T and M? ...

Could you pls be so kind and show exactly where you found a hint or description or documentation or rumor about those hot keys.

[floppy_stuttgart]

... ILVideo80 and using the hotkeys T and M? ...

Could you pls be so kind and show exactly where you found a hint or description or documentation or rumor about those hot keys.

this is in the pdf in the attachment (print of the html help file).

[mike-stgt]

this is in the pdf in the attachment

LOL -- now I see. Those underscores mark the accelerator keys of the system menu. They are at call when the dialog window's system menu is displayed.

[floppy_stuttgart]

And? what happens usually when the keys are pressed?

[rprosperi]

There are no "hot keys" to open those settings dialog, you access them from the system menu (click in on the button at the left end of the title bar) and then you can click on the various settings choices. When the system menu is open, pressing "T" will indeed open the TCP/IP settings, but I did not find a key to open the Monitor dialog; since you use the mouse to access the system menu anyhow, you may as well just click on the setting menu choice you want.

The manual for the 80-Column display interface can be found here: http://www.hhcworld.com/files/compendiu ... manual.pdf

I suggest you also look at Sylvain Cote's "HP-IL Compendium", easily the best single resource available on HP-IL devices, usage, programs, etc.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-11437.html

[floppy_stuttgart]

"click in on the button at the left end of the title bar": I dont see this. See attachment.
Looks like few things are missing? (no system menue etc.)

[mike-stgt]

And? what happens usually when the keys are pressed?

Did you ask, what happens usually when the keys are pressed? This question has nothing to do with HP-IL, right? You ask about some fundamental handling of Windows applications running under a Windows-OS. Right? So your query is pretty much similar asking what happens if you press the button of a door bell. Answer: usually nothing unusual.
All answers about using menues under Windows could be solved here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/menurc/about-menus But it looks as if you are using WINE, what spells WINE Is Not an Emulator. That's all I know about it. Well, also this -- it has nothing to do with HPIL.

[rprosperi]

"click in on the button at the left end of the title bar": I dont see this. See attachment.
Looks like few things are missing? (no system menue etc.)

As Mike says, the issues you're having are unrelated to the HP/HP-IL, etc. aspects and are fundamental Wine/Windows issues.

Try holding down Alt- and press the space bar - this should open the system menu, but it does not work on 100% of programs, and I've no idea if Wine will past that through it's layers to the application program. If not, then I'd look for help from the Wine community or locate a FAQ for Wine users, etc.

Good luck

[floppy_stuttgart]

I just wanted to know what happens at somebody here using the ILVideo. If no-One is using it and can explain what he experienced on its windows machine, thats fine.
It has (yes) nothing to do directly with HP-IL.

[mike-stgt]

I just wanted to know what happens at somebody here using the ILVideo.

You'd like to know "what happens at me" -- mental or emotional? -- using ILVideo80? Well, honestly, I am happy as can be that it works quite similar as described in the accompanying help file.

If no-One is using it and can explain what he experienced on its windows machine, thats fine.

It's great fun, frankly, a quintessentially recommendable experience, without compromise, right from the start.
HTH

[floppy_stuttgart]

Nutzlose Antwort.

[floppy_stuttgart]

The manual for the 80-Column display interface can be found here: http://www.hhcworld.com/files/compendiu ... manual.pdf

Thanks.
In fact I just realized that having ILPER is enough for me now. ILVideo80 additionally to ILPER on my PC screen dont add anything.

[mike-stgt]

Nutzlose Antwort.

For sure it's a futil reply, fittingly your query how to use a Windows program under WINE under Linux in a forum "All about the HP-41C caclulators". That's as asking for "100 g liverwurst, pleeease" in a flower shop, you will probably also get a remark like "sie sind wohl Pfälzer."

[floppy_stuttgart]

SOLVED (was a "wine" issue).
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1023808 ... f-a-window

Code: Select all

Run winecfg, go to "Graphics", and either [b]uncheck "Allow the window manager to decorate the windows"[/b] or check "Emulate a virtual desktop"

Result in the attachment.

[floppy_stuttgart]

Since the window appearance was solved, a new topic with the HP41 hardware; see the attachment.
Now, how to have the outputs to IL-Video, too, in the setup described hereafter
a) hardware HP41 & Pilbox
b) Pil-Box-Bridge
c) Ilper
d) IL-video
Looks like the video get forgotten. not sure of this (however, that video is not mandatory since ilper has the printer area).
Any advice is welcome.

[floppy_stuttgart]

Comment to the previous Post: when the in/out port setup is different, then the Video can be used.. but nomore the printer (new issue).

[jeffcalc]

I guess it's my turn to answer

Now, how to have the outputs to IL-Video, too, in the setup described hereafter
a) hardware HP41 & Pilbox
b) Pil-Box-Bridge
c) Ilper
d) IL-video
Looks like the video get forgotten. not sure of this.

Not sure to understand well what "video get forgotten" can mean.

Comment to the previous Post: when the in/out port setup is different, then the Video can be used.. but nomore the printer (new issue).

Maybe this clarifies a bit the question.
So is the question "How to send print commands to both ILPer printer and IL-video" ?
If you mean simultaneously, the answer is: no for most print commands.
If you mean in turn, yes it's easy, just SELECT the targeted printer/video device.

More generally, the use of SELECT on the HP-41 is convenient for most simple configurations (it was the goal of the HP-41 HP-IL design), but is not as flexible as the HP-71B addressing scheme.
Especially with this setup with 2 drives and 2 printer-class devices, there are for instance impossible tasks, such as getting the catalog of drive 2 listed on the ILPer printer (if someone finds a way, let me know!)

But the fun is in the experimentation !

J-F

[mike-stgt]

Especially with this setup with 2 drives and 2 printer-class devices, there are for instance impossible tasks, such as getting the catalog of drive 2 listed on the ILPer printer (if someone finds a way, let me know!)

In contrast to other programs simulating a single virtual IL device ILPer is quite handy and offers a bundle of the mostly used ones. The description shows how their internal sequence may be altered. Result see screen shot below. First I executed LCAT, its output is automatically displayed on the video device, next I did SF 15 to get following commands traced. 3 SELECT is still shown on the 82163A while DIR and its output is printed on the ILPer display as requested.

Output of DIR from 2nd disk shown on ILPer's printer

You know, the impossible we do right away while wonder take a little longer

But the fun is in the experimentation !

No comment -- what could be taken as an offending comment so let me state more precisely, I prefere a good documentatation that pictures all features of a program so I may decide what's useful for me and my goal. Trial and error is like looking for easter eggs, quite impossible to find that way how to change the internal sequence of devices bundled within ILPer.

HTH
M.

[jeffcalc]

In contrast to other programs simulating a single virtual IL device ILPer is quite handy and offers a bundle of the mostly used ones. The description shows how their internal sequence may be altered. Result see screen shot below. First I executed LCAT, its output is automatically displayed on the video device, next I did SF 15 to get following commands traced. 3 SELECT is still shown on the 82163A while DIR and its output is printed on the ILPer display as requested.

OK, in that setup, changing the device order allowed you to get the DIR output to the ILPer printer window.
We could just have removed the 92198.
But I'm sure you understood what I meant: in a certain configuration (to be clear: with ILPer and an extra printer/display in a certain order, and HP-IL module only), you won't be able to get some DIR output to a some device - in your setup, getting DIR output of 2nd drive to the 82163 device - due to the limitation of the SELECT command.
With extra special modules, it could be possible (for instance the X-IL; see how to do it?).

BTW, what is LCAT? Not in the HP-IL module and not in usual HP-IL extensions (X-IO, X-IL)

HTH
M.

At least it's fun to discuss on HP-IL!

J-F

[mike-stgt]

We could just have removed the 92198.

The impossible task was to have two printing devices within the loop, one within ILPer and another one. Removing the 92198 is a different setup

But I'm sure you understood what I meant...

Yes, today I did, probably. No doubt the HP71B is much more flexible with its PRINTER IS and DISPLAY IS settings.

BTW, what is LCAT? Not in the HP-IL module and not in usual HP-IL extensions (X-IO, X-IL)

See in Warren's archive "82183A Extended IO Module.pdf", Appendix C 'Examples', Printing an HP-IL Device Directory (The LCAT Program), p. 75 ff.

HTH
M.

At least it's fun to discuss on HP-IL!

J-F

First, my "HTH" was rather meant for others, not aimed in your direction -- because regarding HP-IL it's mostly me who has questions and you do have the answers.
Second, for sure it's fun to discuss about HP-IL and its virtual counterpart, especially if the questions are not too far off topic and if there are still experts to find solutions (without guesswork). For example, TACS during SDA is in my device simulators commented with "WTF" (Woot!? That's funny...) since I did not find any description yet. Currently I use a work around that works. Unsatisfying, not the canonical way, guesswork I dislike.

[floppy_stuttgart]

Thanks. I was learning the HP IL. (see Manual HP-IL Chapter 4).
When starting my setup, "XEQ DIR" in the HP41. The output went to "Ilper" Printer.
When putting "2" in X, then "XEQ SELECT", the "XEQ DIR" was the IL-Video.
When putting "1" in X, then "XEQ SELECT", the "XEQ DIR" was the IL-Printer.

[rprosperi]

Clever solution Mike!

[floppy_stuttgart]

BTW, what is LCAT? Not in the HP-IL module and not in usual HP-IL extensions (X-IO, X-IL)

J-F

here it is.

Code: Select all

LBL "LCAT"  ; 82183A Extended IO Module.pdf Appendix C 'Examples', XROM 23,xx
            ; Printing an HP-IL Device Directory (The LCAT Program), p. 75 ff.
            ; recommended there
            ;   https://forum.hp41.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=552&start=20
            ;
            ; change log
            ;  2022 05 29 creation by user floppy from
            ;             https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/
            ;
            ; create raw files with "hp41uc.exe /t=LCAT.TXT /r /k"
            ; then upload in PC emulator / virtual drive / HP41 hardware
;
AUTOIO      ; find number of devices on HP-IL
CF 29
FIX 0
XROM 23,33  ; NLOOP
CLA
ARCL X
"\- DEVICES" ; print number of devices
PRA
1 E3
/           ; stores a loop counter
1           ; return primary address
+
STO 00
XROM 23,45  ; RCLSEL
STO 01
CLA
"PRIMARY ADR. "
ARCL X
PRA         ; print primary address
"ADR   ID    AID"
"\-  CLASS"
PRA         ; print directory head
;
LBL 01
CLA
10
RCL 00      ; recall loop counter
X<Y?        ; ensure that address is two digits
"0"
ARCL X
"\- "
ACA         ; accumulates address into print buffer
SELECT      ; select device having address equal to loop counter
SF 25
ID          ; return device ID
FC?C 25
"--------"
8
XROM 23,09  ; ALENGIO     ; find length of ID string
-
X=0?
GTO 04
;
; fills out device ID string to eight characters
;
LBL 03
"\- "
DSE X
GTO 03
;
LBL 04
"\- "
100
SF 25
AID
RCL 01       ; reselect originalprimary device
SELECT       ; from HP-IL
RDN
FC?C 25      ; branches if device did not send accessory ID
GTO 05
X<Y?         ; appends a space if accessory ID < 100
"\- "        ; appends text in HP41UC https://www.hpmuseum.org/software/41uc.htm
ARCL X
ACA          ; adds ALPHA register string to print buffer
;
; determine device class
;
16
/
INT
16
*
XEQ IND X    ; place device class string into ALPHA
;
LBL 05
ACA
PRBUF        ; print printer buffer
ISG 00       ; increment loop counter
GTO 01       ; branches for additional devices
RTN
;
; device class alpha strings
;
LBL 00
" CNTRLLR"
RTN
;
LBL 16
" MASS ST"
RTN
;
LBL 32
" PRINTER"
RTN
;
LBL 48
" DISPLAY"
RTN
;
LBL 64
" INTRFCE"
RTN
;
LBL 80
" INSTRMT"
RTN
;
LBL 96
" GRAPHIC"
END

[Garth]

Since this topic seems to have run its course, I thought I'd address something that's frequently a difficulty for non-native English speakers, the matter of how to ask a question in English. Hopefully some will find it helpful.

"How it works" is a method, a noun clause, not a question. When questions start with "How," "Why," "Where," "When," "Who," etc., the next word generally needs to be a modal, like "can," "could," "will," "would," "shall," "should," "may," "might," and "must," and in some cases, "do," "does," "did," "is," "are," "was," and "were" can be used as modals. There might be some I'm forgetting. Modals are a type of verb. The easiest giveaway that one is a modal might be that you cannot put "to" in front of it, like "to can," "to shall," etc. which are incorrect. Also, the 3rd-person form does not take on the s at the end like non-modal verbs do, like "he walks," "he works," etc..

So the "How" question would be "How does it work?" (not "How it works"?) The one about buffer interference can be asked various ways, like "How do you avoid buffer interference?" or "How can I avoid buffer interference?" or "How is buffer interference avoided?" (but not "How to avoid buffer interference?")